Unknown Speaker 0:00 London Property, home of super prime, where you can find informative educational and entertaining content, covering all aspects of property. farnaz Fazaipour 0:11 Hello, and welcome to the London Property Podcast. I’m your host Farnaz, and today we’re in conversation with Kate Bright, who is going to share a wealth of knowledge with us about invisible security for high net worth individuals. Welcome, Kate. Kate Bright 0:25 Thank you for having me. farnaz Fazaipour 0:27 So you started working actually for families as internal staff. And that’s where you gained your experience from. So can you tell us, first of all, how that experience formed what you are now doing? Kate Bright 0:40 Sure. So I worked in three family offices between 2000 and 2015. And I started actually as a PA, so never underestimate the personal assistant. And I was working for clients that needed the sort of security and personnel planning that we offer today as a business. And over those 15 years, really, I just saw that there was a real need for a development of this idea of invisible security. And a couple of things happen to me during that time, including undergoing my close protection, my bodyguard training, which I really enjoyed. And being operational enclosed protection was something that I I saw was a really useful part of the team. So after completing the close protection, or the bodyguard training, it was really a natural next step to set up the business, which provides the people the advice and the project management to keep our clients safe. So yeah, quite quite the journey, but 23 years later, and the business has been going now since 2018. And 2015 was was when we sort of initially set up the first part of the bit of the business. farnaz Fazaipour 1:43 So it is really important to be that deeply involved with clients, as you say, as a PA, because you really see how it all works from the ground up and then providing a service after you have all of that under your belt. So what is protection training? What what did you actually have to do? And was it a world full of man? Or do you see that that changing? Kate Bright 2:04 So to your first question, that the training was one of the best courses that I’ve ever done in my life, it was the basic course was is 160 hours of learning. And during that 160 hours, you cover off a lot of a lot more theoretical and practical skills than I had anticipated. So a lot of classroom based stuff. Planning, logistics is a huge part of the of the training. And then the practical side of it from day one, you’re out and about with practice scenarios taking people around. In my case, I did my training in London. And then there’s different aspects of first aid training, which are added on as part of the sort of finale of the course. What I really enjoyed was the what was called back then the hard target combat training. So I took elements of that and continued with Krav Maga, which is an Israeli martial arts. So there’s aspects of the training that are simply there to provide that basic course. But you’re really encouraged to have a continuous professional development mindset. So for example, I’ve gone and done extra driver training courses, a lot of people will do their advanced driver training, evasive driving as additional elements to the basic course. So yeah, that was the answer to your first question. What was your second again? I’m so excited talking about it. farnaz Fazaipour 3:20 My second question was, was it a man’s world? And when when you were doing the training, did you find that you were a minority? Kate Bright 3:25 I think security as a word or the there’s the perception that it is a very male dominated world or industry and a lot of people don’t necessarily understand that security can span a lot of different roles from static guarding, you know, the people that you’ll you’ll see at sports events or at your local supermarket, for example, all the way through to the sort of close protection bodyguarding that, that I’m experienced in. And I want to fight with 5.75% of female licence holders in the UK. So yeah, you know, there aren’t that many women that that work in close protection, but that number is increasing. And I did a TEDx talk in 2018, about this topic of invisible security, and it was 5.25% in 2018. So I like to think that I’ve contributed point five of a percent increase. But I think traditionally, the security is seen as something that men deliver. It is a very male dominated industry. But it’s not to say that it’s not very welcoming to women that want to work within it. I just think that a part of a lot of the advocacy that we try to do is to open up this world to potential new recruits, bringing in people from different backgrounds, and give me an ex female England rugby player as part of my team any day of the week. I think sport and security have a lot in common. But yeah, it’s still a sort of a male dominated sector, but the women that work in the sector are really well received and it is a very sort of community, a big community of operators, particularly in the UK, that live and work here in the UK, and also globally with their clients. farnaz Fazaipour 5:07 If we’re still allowed to say this, I would, I would, I would say that women are multitaskers. And we are naturally produced to think laterally and be a bit more, you know, doing 600 different things at once. And I imagine that that’s a skill set. That’s quite handy when you’re trying to look at a security detail for somebody, because you have to go, you know, through all the different scenarios, and how’d you find that makes a difference? Kate Bright 5:33 Yeah, I mean, that there’s this sort of adage that Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. And I think the skill of preparation and the skill of planning is one that is multifaceted. So you’re always looking at every worst case eventualities. So plan A to plan Z. Now, when you are operational, when you’re working and protecting a client, there are things that go wrong. And I think in those instances, it’s been my, my background in working and and starting out as a personal assistant, where you are literally, you know, multitasker extraordinaire, that you’re able to sort of preview and be proactive as to what might need to happen next before it’s even happened. So I think the actual role itself, the operational role, as opposed to the management role, which is more of what I do on a day to day basis, or the sort of Team Leader type role, does require a huge amount of thinking ahead, being proactive, not waiting till things go wrong. So does play into the sort of the strengths that some women who are are have that multitasking gene can easily apply. So hence, why I’m trying to encourage more women to come into the industry. farnaz Fazaipour 6:41 So don’t be frightened by the muscle man image, because there’s a lot more that goes into what you have to do. Kate Bright 6:48 Absolutely. I think the great thing about the industry is it’s so physically fluid in this physical security, physical protection, that there’s a place for everybody. And we have clients of all nationalities and backgrounds and ages and cultural sort of backgrounds. And so literally, it is a role that not anybody but the right kind of mindset and the right sort of experience and training, certainly exposure to the clients themselves, I would say, is more important than having a sort of six foot six, sort of body mass of 120 pounds. So there’s not to say that there isn’t a place for for those sorts of operators. And I know some of them, we work with some of them. And our clients are equally as happy in certain scenarios having different ranges of sizes, and genders and all sorts of looks and feels to their team. Because ultimately what we’re trying to do is create this discrete blendable infrastructure so that no one person sticks out. That’s the sort of invisible security that we’re looking at. farnaz Fazaipour 7:46 Right, talking about invisible security. I mean, you know, I think when you think back to the sort of more flashy, 80s and 90s, where people actually wanted everyone to know they had bodyguards, and they had bulletproof cars. Are you seeing that, you know, it is all becoming a lot more under the radar? Kate Bright 8:02 Yeah, modern security in the modern client needs a very different look and feel to sort of, you know, Kevin Costner’s, and all of the sort of things that come into your head when you say that we’re bodyguard. I mean, I’ve heard all of the sort of stereotypical things that people think of when that word is used, I think, particularly in a world that’s kind of complex, we’ll see post-pandemic, and, you know, in the world we’re living today, the risks and threats are ever present. And so I think a lot of clients are looking at different ways that they can be very discreet and very private in the way that they live, their their lives, and we call secure lifestyle is this blend of the physical and the digital. So I think, you know, we’ve got a different world to 10-15 years ago, when I was working with the families that I worked with. We didn’t you know, the 20 years ago, 23 years ago, when my first role I had a was an Amstrad in the corner computer, and everyone was like, Well, you know, what’s that? So embracing technology and the risks, but also the opportunities that that gives to our clients has been hugely important to create the sort of modern security plans that we’re we’re deploying today. farnaz Fazaipour 9:07 So is there a kind of common theme in the new wealth that that looks for security? You know, you talked about secure living? So is it that people are just trying to push away attention? What what is the sort of driving factor that people try to get security for? Kate Bright 9:29 So what we’re effectively delivering to our clients is peace of mind. So what that is, varies from client to client, but as a snapshot of right now, from and with a property lens and feeling safe at home is something that’s been ever present. It’s always been the home is the castle. And so it’s how to protect that home but also give the younger generations the opportunity to live a normal life. So this idea of invisible and discreet plays perfectly to being able to give younger generations next generations coming through less of a what we call gilded cage and more of a real life experience. So I’d say the the themes that, that tie that together is that increasingly, for example, at home, home property security systems have become much more discreet, much more tech lead, excuse me, things like biometric entry systems will work for some clients. But they won’t work for others where they’ll prefer to use security train dogs, for example, we’ve seen a huge rise in the use of human protection, physical protection, as opposed to technology for certain clients that don’t trust technology, and all of the sort of issues that arise, when you don’t know how to use the technology effectively can often lead to much more of a exposure from a risk and threat perspective, than not having good humans operating good systems. So we’d always we’d always work with a client to understand what their secure lifestyle parameters are. But 9 times out of 10, there’s some technology and some human interface that that provides the kind of what they feel is this sort of idea of peace of mind. But I think COVID was a real turning point for security to take much more of a health and safety role. I think that’s something that we’re seeing still kind of filtering through into the sort of the projects that we’re asked to support, whether that’s medical concierge support, whether that’s helping with logistics, or chaperone travel was a huge one throughout the pandemic. And that’s remained, I thought that was just going to be a sort of wild travelers tricky piece, that people are much more now wanting to protect that kind of logistical exposure to, you know, moments where we would say they are in some sort of risk or danger. But coupled with that this idea of health and safety, which health and safety, you think of a sort of high vis vest on a clipboard, I think security is now going into that role of maintaining the health, the safety of our families, which makes property protection much more interesting as well who comes in and out of property, how that’s managed. So as I say, technology, and great humans will always be part of what we think is a really robust and very kind of all encompassing secure lifestyle plan for our clients. farnaz Fazaipour 12:16 So the difference between your business and a security company is that you will actually go in and assess what somebody needs and then find the right individuals rather than place your own company to do the protection. Is that are correct? It’s more like a concierge service? Kate Bright 12:29 Yes, so our model is very much split across three main activities. So the people, the advice, and the project management. So we can collaborate and partner with any existing company that a client may have inherited, security, recruitment, or otherwise. The difference with us is that we can do all three of those parts of the puzzle under one roof. So we operate in a, as you say, a concierge manner. So we were able to simplify the process for our clients. They’re not paying nine different suppliers, they can just come through us. So it’s a form of property management, but for security, if you like. farnaz Fazaipour 13:00 So I’m assuming that most of your business is through word of mouth. It’s not that people look in an advert and call a security company. How do most of your clients find you? Kate Bright 13:11 so about 30% of our clients are actually referred by other clients, which is really lovely. So we have a nice client ecosystem. But a lot of our clients will come to us through other advisors. So whether that’s law firms, tax, trust, any part of that that sort of infrastructure, we get a lot of referrals, and often actually a working b2b, business to business. So we will be instructed by the law firm or instructed by the trust company to help protect either beneficiaries or clients that they’re they’re working with. Weirdly, though, we are starting to get a lot more people coming through the website, but we have to do an extra layer of due diligence, because when we have a referral, either from an existing client, or from an advisor, we know that there’s a certain level of compliance and KYC process that’s been done already. So increasingly, particularly our more entrepreneurial, our younger clients are finding us through things like our Instagram, and also our website. So it’s been interesting seeing where that web traffic has been coming in from. But I think we’re a business that operates on trust. And I think trust is leveraged through that sort of personal recommendation. So that’s definitely something that that we want to encourage. farnaz Fazaipour 14:19 So you mentioned that, you know, everybody’s requirements differ. But there must be sort of a general path that you follow when you onboard somebody. So what are the things that you look for? From when you first make contact with a new client. Kate Bright 14:36 So we call it a secure lifestyle audit. So it’s, the client is always at the centre, if you think of a sort of a wheel, and then there’s the different quadrants or the spokes that stick out from there. Some clients will need all of those different quadrants and spokes looked at, so for example, physical protection and digital protection, and the sub strands of each of those. So for example, property reviews, home property security reviews, in a digital sense says as an equivalent of a home security review, which is called a digital footprint report. Which is where we would take your name and we would run a full report, a day analyst’s work to see what there is about you in the sort of dark light web searches that would enable us to understand a little bit more about your digital risk profile, all the way through to considerations for the children, or next generation or younger parts of the family all the way through to personnel planning. So there’s the different spokes, that our clients that we’ll run through with our clients in that Audit Checklist process. Sometimes we’re we’re layering over that a life event that’s happened. So we can do that audit in a proactive state, which is what we really enjoy is having a bit of a lead into setting up a project. Or sometimes we’re working with clients going through key life changes transition. So whether that’s death of a family member or a divorce or some sort of sort of rupture moment, relocation to the UK, we would classify that as a rupture moment, that’s where there’s a lot of change. And there’s a lot of logistics, and that then leads to the need for a bit of a closer scrutiny on what the secure lifestyle implications of that are. So it’s a full process. But sometimes we won’t get the length of time that we would want to have with the clients that we’re working with, either them directly or part of their client ecosystem that can help us with that. But the more time we get to spend with the ultimate client, the better because then we can really start to understand nuances of what we’re talking about in the audit process. Because audit’s quite a clinical word, actually, what we’re talking about is peace of mind. So peace of mind is not something you can necessarily download from somebody in an hour, or however long you’re given. So our challenge is to make sure that we can extract as much of the pertinent information and then learn about what that client is feeding back to us so that we can add more spokes to that service over time. farnaz Fazaipour 16:49 So when you talk about digital, presumably some of the vulnerabilities that criminals or people that want to attack these people look for, they find on the internet. Is that what you mean? Are you talking about their reputation, or is it both? Kate Bright 17:04 So they’re two very closely linked. So if you think of the physical property review would give you a report that says you need some cameras here, and entry system, residential security, so you could get a little project plan, the digital report is really interesting, because you’re able to pick out much like you are in a property review key aspects of vulnerabilities that could be used as a sort of negative against you. So for example, the one I gave about the floorplans. There are also parts to that digital footprint report that will play perfectly to PR and strategic communications, to further amplify your reputation, to enhance your reputation, and then also to look at aspects of your reputation that may need some more curation. So for example, articles that may have appeared about you, that are 10-15-20 years old, that because of the algorithms on the internet, have remained in that first, second, third page of the Google searches. So there are ways you can optimise the good and to optimise the bad, which will enable our clients to be able to have a clearer picture of how to go forth and acquire new businesses or as part of a bigger sort of secure lifestyle strategy. farnaz Fazaipour 18:18 You’ve explained that very well. What I’m also wondering is, you know, a lot of security threats to people, as they accumulate wealth or have wealth is kind of opportunistic that a criminal is going to look out for them and come and get them. So from your experience, what percentage of the security measures you put in place, are actually just for people’s peace of mind, and they’re not actually a threat, there isn’t a threat to them. But, you know, they just feel that they need to have that security there for their own peace of mind. Whereas, you know, some people actually need it? Kate Bright 18:57 So peace of mind and psychological safety came into play here. So I would always refer clients to the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, we get quite sort of deep with our clients as to what safety and security means for them. And each client is different. We’ve had scenarios where we’ve had clients with a hugely high risk profile, but their perception of their safety is totally different to somebody who may have come through or some disruption of a family, a life event such as a divorce, who may have a heightened sense of their own need for safety and security. So what we do with the audit process is we run through all of the potential items that we could work with a client and help them to amplify or buttress their feeling of safety. But you can never guarantee what the client will then want to actually go forward with. So for example, it’s like household staffing planning. If you lay that over the need for a certain amount of security personnel, a client may say, Well, you know, it may be a cost piece. It may be an aesthetic piece, it may be all sorts of different reasons why they would say, well, actually, we don’t want eight people, we would like to hire four people and see how we go. So we can only give a kind of best case, in it rational, logical proposal of how we would prevent and also look at previewing any changes to their risk profile, but life isn’t static. So digital and risk did sorry, digital and physical risk are ever evolving, we can take a snapshot of your property review, we can take a snapshot of your digital footprint report, it’ll change the moment after the report has been generated, because there are new bits of information about each human individual, and there are different aspects to physical security that will change on a day to day basis. So your original question, I think, is is an interesting one, because I would say that some clients who we would think would need much more of an in depth, much more all encompassing protective wrapper around them, will often be the ones that will say, well, actually, we’re fine with this, we’re aware of our risk, we’ve presented to them, the what we would say is a sort of gold standard, best case proposal. But they will pick and choose amongst the things that they want to actually start working with, particularly when someone’s coming to security fresh, it’s quite a an overwhelming process to take somebody through. That’s why we have changed the terminology. That’s why the secure lifestyle audit is basically a risk assessment. But for clients going through a very frenetic stressful time of their life, they don’t necessarily want the same language, that’s going to be a sort of an additional stressor. So we’re always trying to kind of bring down the stress so that the clients can think as clearly as they can about the part they play in it as well, because we also offer security training for clients of all ages. Because what we believe is that the more empowered and the more educated a client is about security in general, we’re not just then giving you a bodyguard and saying, you’re safe off on your way, we want you to work with that close protection, or preserve and specialists in the best possible way, we want you to be able to understand the process of protection, because you’re a part of that you’re a key part of that when you are working with security personnel and security processes, and protocols. So we’d much rather work with our clients on a leaner basis, but where they are empowered and understand their part in the secure lifestyle journey. farnaz Fazaipour 22:23 And I suppose from a cost perspective, it really depends on how far they want to go. Because, you know, you hear in the news about Prince Harry and his costs that he was he was trying to take on board. So you can really escalate. And I guess, if you need an international protection, and you need protection, when you travel, when you’re home, for all of your family members, I mean, it could be an endless expense. Kate Bright 22:44 Yeah, and I’ve always said that, I think that there should be some sort of security index. So whether that’s linked to your net worth or your exposure, your through your profile. And a bit like when you link it to insurance, how much is too much to pay for insurance who set that price. So we work very closely with the insurance industry to understand how we can best best risk and mitigate for those who will want to put the right value on it. We want to work with clients in a really cerebral way, not in a patch way, that’s not patch problems, let’s actually understand what the client wants to achieve out of it. Cost is always going to be as we’re a business. Cost is always going to be a conversation, where risk and also lifestyle outcome is always going to be a conversation. But I think it’s more useful when you as I say link it to something that’s more tangible. So a profile, a wealth, exposure, and look at individuals that are doing it well and doing it much more discreetly than others, and start to look at that as a sort of benchmark of where you sit within that. But security is humans and also digital protection, and at what price your peace of mind, for some clients. There is also at what price? Well, there’s a day rate and the day rate of protective staff is always also a really good place to start because it starts to then lodge in somebody’s mind that a human being is protecting you. And that I think is a quite an interesting conversation to have with a client because then it’s the value of someone’s time and then also the sourcing of that, that person and in our case, a lot of what we do is recruitment focused. So we will encourage our clients to hire and retain their staff like they would their household staff full time. So then you start to talk about salaries and salaries, I think are a much easier way to understand the value of somebody’s expertise, skill. And for some of our operatives, having worked with backgrounds of elite special forces or royalty protection, those are skills that you really, you know, you can’t buy those skills, you can’t learn those skills, you have to experience those skills. So we’re working with some really, really fantastic operators. And we always aim to get the best value for our clients but we always say there is a cost associated with that expertise. farnaz Fazaipour 23:16 And there’s a close relationship. You know, for example, a lot of SAS operatives end up in private security. What’s that kind of relationship between private security and state security? Is it only if you’re a diplomat or a royal that you get the benefit of birth? Kate Bright 25:18 Yeah, so a lot of the so for example, royalty protection, that is a public sector role that’s attached to the to the police, policing. And so a lot of our operators will come out of public sector into private sector. So there is this misconception, I think that it is only x Special Forces, or only x royalty protection, is a really interesting array. And part of the great joy of my my world and running the business is seeing who, every given day like in our team meeting this morning, applications that come in from people that are either leaving different parts of military, law enforcement, armed forces, and seeing the backgrounds and experience you know, one, one woman who’s left, a tank regiment has a completely different skill set and background to a man that’s come out of, you know, firearms trained man has come out of the counterterrorism unit of the Met Police. So it’s about looking at those individuals and CVs are are something that we’re fastidious about looking at the background experience and skill sets of our candidates, because some of our clients will want to embed those individuals into their family, working with their children, young children during the school runs. So they want to make sure that they are individuals that have the background, sure, but also who are able to interact in a family environment and not be fazed by the sort of lives and logistics that they’re going to need to be part of. farnaz Fazaipour 26:44 And would you say that in private security, much like state security that you do actually collaborate with different operators in different countries and learn from each other’s experiences? Is there an open conversation that goes on? How, how does that collaborate? Kate Bright 26:57 Sure, interestingly, I did an interview with our counterparts over in the US, there’s an entity over there that we were talking about the learning the shared learnings across US operations and UK operations and how we’re trying to create a much more of an open dialogue. Because, again, security has been this very closed world as a sort of perception for quite a long time. But actually, there’s much more cross collaboration now, where people are leaving different countries, equivalents of our royalty protection, Special Forces, you get to then meet and work with a lot of different cultures, a lot of different backgrounds, and you can learn about the training from that country, a lot of people will maybe go back to the country that they came from, to take those skills that they’ve learned, say in the British Army or the in the UK, back to their their home country. And in fact, through COVID, a lot of the individuals that we would have thought would have been available to work here, now have actually gone back and had reassessments of where they want to work from. Because our clients have shifted where home is going right back to this, you know, Home is where the heart is, but home is the castle. The actual locations of a lot of our clients have shifted in the last two, three years, we’ve always worked with globally nomadic clients. But I think to your point of learning from different backgrounds of operators across the world, it’s never been a better time for security to be a lot more diverse minded. We’ve got a heck of a lot wider pool of candidates now and operators to work with. As a result, I think of the pandemic as people have dispersed somewhat. I think it’s getting, there’s a slight return to some sort of normality in terms of travel and the sort of patterns of travel that we would normally expect. So people coming to the UK for the summer, for example, we’re expecting a bigger cohort of people coming back this summer. But I think there’s there’s a real moment for the security industry globally, now the private security industry, where I think it’s a really good time for clients to be looking and reassessing their needs, because they could actually have a team that they wouldn’t necessarily have otherwise been able to have, because of this shift around in, in where people have ended up after the pandemic. So I think it’s a really good time for people to be looking at the sort of skills that they would want around them and the sort of infrastructure that they would want to keep them safe. farnaz Fazaipour 29:19 And is there a golden standard, like, you know, if you’re Israeli trained, you are the best in the world or if you’re American trained, or is it just different needs for different people? Kate Bright 29:28 Well, my Israeli and my US friends would obviously say that they are far superior in terms of training. I think there are there’s, there’s certainly different facets of the training and security training that have got their sort of their hallowed path. If I mentioned Krav Maga. I believe that that is one of the most instinctive forms of martial arts that you can, or self defence rather, that you can actually learn. It’s something that I would be comfortable with my nieces learning and understanding because it’s very, it’s very much about being instinctive to risk. That’s that’s different though from the self defence training that that we’re encouraging our clients to do, we don’t want our clients to become Krav Maga specialists, because we don’t want them to be in a situation where they’re gonna have to use it. So I think there’s there’s a sort of an understanding that there are different elements to security training where you can get your advanced driver training, that is the sort of gold standard literally is gold, with a company called ROSPA. And there are different facets to the training that you can go the extra mile. But I think what’s so great about the mindset of the elite candidates that we work with, is this continuous professional development, even in the jobs that they do, Even now, when I’m operational, I’m taking away and back briefing and learning from each client that I work with. What’s another skill that I could have used in that scenario, what’s the next iteration that I can push myself in. I’m now working with clients from different jurisdictions, do I now need to actually learn another language and then the amount of of operators that are now looking at their skills in a broader context, I’d rather have a multilingual, close protection operative on my books than necessarily somebody who’s a Krav Maga specialist, because communication is the basis of really good security. So I think I think different skills, and different backgrounds that people come from, blended together, is this ultimate form of invisible protective security, in my opinion. And I’ve seen it in action and I’ve been in those teams where I am not a martial arts expert, and I’m not the best medically trained, ex paramedic. When you’ve got people like that on your teams, and you’re layering over your own experience, it’s fantastic to watch what happens. If in the event of something happening on the on the health side, you’re having to then use somebody with that skill, it’s, it’s, it’s so brilliant to watch situations that could be incredibly dangerous and life threatening, be solved by people with those, those real sort of specialist skills. So I think there’s, in conclusion, there’s, there’s a room for specialist skills, and developing and deepening those. But I would always say that keeping your continuous professional development alive, it also inspires some of our clients, some of our young people that work with some of our operators, there’s there’s two twin boys I’m thinking about. And they worked with 2 ex Special Forces guys, and they are now undertaking some of the training because they want to go into potentially go into military duty. So they were inspired by the guys that were protecting them, which I think is quite a nice story, not perhaps one for all young children. But I think it’s it’s great for young people to be exposed to people that have trained in these ways. And, you know, gone to the sort of nth degree in the learning and understanding of particular skills. farnaz Fazaipour 33:01 And that was actually going to leading me into what I was going to ask you next. So the kind of new wealth creation is the younger tech entrepreneur. And do you find that any of the young ones are like, Okay, I want to be able to defend myself, I want you to train me and tell me what to do. Does that happen? Kate Bright 33:19 Yeah, we do a lot of security training. The day one of security training is that you shouldn’t be in a situation where you need to use any form of self defence. As I said before, situational awareness training is something that all our clients and all their young people should undergo at the right stage in their in where they’re at, from as young as sort of seven, eight years old. I think it is very dangerous to go too far with a client thinking that they are able to do the job of protecting themselves. But this goes back to the point that I made about the education piece, I’d much rather a self defence trained client, working with a really good team, who understands the skills and understands the process that’s going on to protect them than I would somebody that sort of divest and says, Okay, if you keep me safe, I’m going to carry on as I was and perhaps make some bad decisions, and you can pick up the make it make it better again. So there’s a fine line. And I think, yes, we’re seeing more clients wanting to become security trained. But before we’ve even said to that client, we’re prepared to work with you on that basis. It’s for what and what’s, where does this come from? It’s something that we would in our secure lifestyle audit, we would naturally suggest to something that in the right way would be delivered at the right time. But if someone’s specifically asking for that, I’d probably want to dig into why they’re asking for it, what they perceive as the outcome of that and that again, a bit like physical risk digital risk. I am security trained is not a complete sentence, because you’re learning every single day and risk changes every single day. So if clients are trying to aim to get to a point to feel safe, then we don’t want to take good money after bad. It’s you’re not going to get to a point, we want you to be able to work with us in a cerebral way. So yeah. farnaz Fazaipour 35:19 Okay. Well, to finish off, and probably not a not a very easy question to answer. But what would be a good budget for somebody new to security? To assume, for locally based security detail for a year, let’s say, for a family with children. Kate Bright 35:40 Family with children. So it’s work on the basis of, and in fact, we’re trying to index this now. So size of property, typical security spends. So that will obviously increase as the property footprint increases or square footage increases. But I’d like to talk about the cost of security in terms of the average yearly salary of a close protection operative, which sits sits at about 60-70,000 pounds a year, depending on if that person is travelling with the client, static residential security, what the actual task is, how many family members are being protected, what kind of size of team. But if you use those two kind of metric points, how, what the size of the footprint of the property or properties globally, and then also, size of family number of complex logistics, because if you’ve got only four family members, but each for doing four completely different things, you’ve got four different entry points there that need to have a separate team on them potentially. So if you if you look at the sort of yearly salary as a good benchmark of what security should cost, I think it’s, I think, a better question is, who is protecting me? The due diligence that you want to do on any business or company that’s claiming to want to protect you, I think should should extend to the humans that are protecting you. So what checks and balances have been put in place to make sure that those staff and team members have been background checked, for example, that I think is a really good use of resource and time and energy. So a lot of our clients may have had historical companies that have helped them, or historical operators that they’ve worked with, or a chauffeur: We’ve always had, Derek working with us, which is fantastic, you can build a team around existing staff members. And that’s what we would say, we wouldn’t suggest pulling teams out to put and replace teams, we always want to work with trusted team and staff members that clients come with. So security, I would say that the the price should reflect a very cerebral open conversation, where a client has very clearly and succinctly gone through what a good secure lifestyle outcome is, and what is on the horizon. So if we’re not aware of a business that’s being sold, a divorce that’s in the pipeline, or relocation that’s being planned, we can’t then necessarily do our jobs to the best of our ability. So a bit of a vague answer, but yeah, rough salary, know who your operators are, do your background checking. And do your background checking even if you’ve got an existing existing company in place. Make sure that you are a bit like you would, your your utility bills, make sure you ring up and ask if you’re getting the best value and that you’ve had regular background checking down on the people that are protecting you. farnaz Fazaipour 38:28 Well, I came up with the figure while you were saying all of that, and I imagined about a quarter million pounds a year. Kate Bright 38:34 Again, depending on, you know who you are, how much you’re moving. Yeah, property, properties. It’s unfortunately, there’s no sort of magic magic number. farnaz Fazaipour 38:45 But you would be covered at quarter of a million I would say. Kate Bright 38:48 Yeah, I think I think I would Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would personally. Fantastic. farnaz Fazaipour 38:53 Well, thank you so much for talking to us. And to all our listeners. If you would like to meet any of our experts or have an interesting story to tell us. Do, please get in touch at info@www.londonproperty.co.uk Unknown Speaker 39:09 Thanks for listening to the London Property Podcast. Head over to www.londonproperty.co.uk and subscribe to our newsletter to receive latest updates.